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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Even though minions only have 1 hit point, and thus die the first time they're hit, you still need to be able to hit them, and they need to have a chance to hit you too. That's why there are minions of most every level - if every minion was level 1, then they'd never be able to hit someone level 10 or above, and would be hit by most players 95% of the time they don't roll a '1'. Also, they need to be at least worth noticing, and a level 1 minion doing 4 damage isn't much of a hindrance to a level 20 tank with 150+ hit points, assuming said minion could even hit that tank.

That's why we have a Kobold Minion (Level 1) with AC 15 dealing 4 damage, and Ogre Thug (Level 11) with AC 23 dealing 8 damage, an Abyssal Ghoul Myrmidon (Level 21) with AC 35 dealing 9 damage+immobilized, and a Lich Vestige (Level 26) with AC 40 dealing 10 damage+weakened, and they can all be minions - they're more or less pushovers to the appropriate-level party of heroes, but not so weak as to be able to be safely ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2012 10:07 pm 
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I see now... there are level 12 minions and their ACs are higher... But the level 3 zombie minion is less powerful than the level 2 brute, which is why I got confused. It's all good. I think I'll be cataloging the monsters in an excel sheet now too...

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 3:19 am 
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...or you could use the "Monster by level" tables at the back of each Monster Manual. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 9:27 am 
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I knw exactly what you mean, Goliath I'm a seasoned 2e player/DM and I' recently started on 4e. All I can say is start over there are to many differences and the mechanics too. The magic is much more general and limited. Keep your characters stats and background and some equipment but thats about it I believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 7:46 pm 
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tinkin wrote:
...or you could use the "Monster by level" tables at the back of each Monster Manual. :)


I found that. It's what I've used thus far. But I still want to put all the monsters on an excel sheet so that I can group all the "like" monsters together. Undead with undead, Fey with Fey, Natural with natural, etc...

It's confusing to me to have monsters categorized only alphabetically or only by level. Maybe I'm knit-picky but I like to be able to see all of the monsters of a certain theme I might have at my disposal as the party continues gaining levels. Besides, I think a part of me views this activity as a sort of schoolbook study/note-taking exercise. If I have it all in my excel sheet, then I'm sure I read it all at least once.

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:05 pm 
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Randraugir wrote:
I knw exactly what you mean, Goliath I'm a seasoned 2e player/DM and I' recently started on 4e. All I can say is start over there are to many differences and the mechanics too. The magic is much more general and limited. Keep your characters stats and background and some equipment but thats about it I believe.


It's not something I can't get used to. I do like some of the newer, simpler game mechanics. The powers add flare to every character. I always used to wish my guy had powers that were way cooler than what 2E had to offer.

My wife, on the other hand, doesn't like looking up her powers in the book. She seems to only want to make melee basic attacks. She'll use Daily and Encounter powers, but the at-wills go almost unnoticed... Maybe its just because we're still creeping up on level 2 and the available at-wills aren't that powerful yet. My buddy gave me some templates he found online for listing the powers you take at each level... maybe if she just has three sheets to shuffle through, and if it means she'll no longer have to sift through powers she doesn't have to find the one she does, then she might use her at-wills more.

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:48 am 
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GoliathAssassin84 wrote:
But I still want to put all the monsters on an excel sheet so that I can group all the "like" monsters together. Undead with undead, Fey with Fey, Natural with natural, etc...
I'm a big fan of re-skinning. If I want a level X Undead Elite Brute and there aren't any at that level, I just take a level X non-Undead Elite Brute, change the description and flavour text, tweak the powers accordingly and work it from there.

Good luck with all the categorising though...be sure to leave extra columns on the spreadsheet to cater for all the factors you might later decide to consider choosing monsters for.


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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 12:12 pm 
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'84 - Your character should always include a full description of all of your Powers, with the numbers for Attack and Damage (and any other effects) already calculated for that level. If the Spreadsheet doesn't do it automatically, you can put each Power on an index card by hand or whatever, but you should not ask players (including yourself) to consult the book in order to use a Power.

As much as I hesitate to recommend that anyone buy more stuff when they already have more than enough stuff, it does sound like your wife would be happiest with a Slayer, found in Heroes of the Fallen Lands. Those Fighters are Strikers with no Daily Powers that enhance their Basic Attack through a Stance that is always on and a damage bonus one or more times per Encounter. Very simple, very direct.

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 5:05 pm 
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tinkin wrote:
GoliathAssassin84 wrote:
Yeah... the single-weapon attack... dumbest change in 4E in my opinion. I don't care if you're a wizard using two broken tree branches as clubs, it's NOT that hard to dual-wield! I mean, charge me a feat for doing it or whatever, but there should be absolutely no reason that a PC of ANY class with a dex above 10 or 12 couldn't learn to dual-wield at some point in the adventure. I might just homebrew that one... especially if there's only gonna be the two of us. We need the extra hands... literally!
As someone who studied martial arts for years, as well as a very long stint in the military learning and training others in close combat, duel-wielding weapons is NOT an easy skill to pick up. What most people visualise as "dual wielding" is nothing more than holding two weapons at once, and picking which one they hit with when they make their move. Much like the current rules really.

Those who can effectively use two weapons at once, virtually simultaneously and without holding one weapon in check in order to strike with the other, are in a class of their own...two classes actually: Ranger and Tempest Fighter to put them in game terms.

I find this aspect of the rules pretty realistic (as well as balanced, as mentioned above)


What about using the offhand weapon to parry ? No attack but a defensive option like a shield that adds to your AC and wielding a extra weapon like this can give you more options in weapon choice. But if you use the offhand weapon to strike you also loose the AC bonus. This is a very realistic option too.

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 Post subject: Re: Glory days
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:00 pm 
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tinkin wrote:
I'm a big fan of re-skinning. If I want a level X Undead Elite Brute and there aren't any at that level, I just take a level X non-Undead Elite Brute, change the description and flavour text, tweak the powers accordingly and work it from there.


I'll feel better about taking that next step after I've already studied what's there and played with at least half of it.

tinkin wrote:
Good luck with all the categorising though...be sure to leave extra columns on the spreadsheet to cater for all the factors you might later decide to consider choosing monsters for.


Well, I've already got level, role, name, size, origin, language, and thinking about adding alignment, hp, attack bonus, perception...

So far the one column giving me the most trouble is the origin column. Some of the same monsters with different levels have different origins. Fire snakes, shadow snakes, natural and fey Chokers, natural and Elemental giants/titans... Never expected this much chaos. In fact, after diving into this spreadsheet, I think that if I were to make an RPG, people might actually be bored to death of the uniformity I'd produce!

Most recently, I had to make a heading for Underdark creatures. Grimlocks just didn't look right under the "peoples" heading! But I'm making pretty good progress. I only have the middle to go... from Hound to Rat. Don't ask me why I bit off both ends, I don't know!

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