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 Post subject: Me again, trying to GRAB your attention
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:03 am 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 5:46 am
Posts: 279
Hey'all ;)

Once again a question came up at our recent gaming session:

We've had a discussion as of lately wether or not a daze effect ends a grab by a ghoul.

The PHB states, that if "you" (talking to the player) are dazed, the grab ends - and that to sustain a grab the player needs a minor action.

Our GM said that due to the fact, that a monster does not need a minor action to sustain the grab daze does not automatically end the grab - which to me makes no sense because even if I as a player was dazed I could use my partial action to spend a minor action and sustain the grab ... yet the rules clearly state that daze ends my grab. So should the ghoul's grab not be ended as well if one could impose the dazed condition on it?

Thanks for your answers.


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 Post subject: Re: Me again, trying to GRAB your attention
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:48 am 
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Posts: 580
If the PHB says Dazed ends a grab, then it does. The other rule is pertaining to sustaining a grab, which is not being questioned.

I think 4e is very codified and unless there is something you can find that say Dazed doesn't end a grab for that monster, then the grab should end.


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 Post subject: Re: Me again, trying to GRAB your attention
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:22 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:41 am
Posts: 1334
[DM is final arbiter, of course, don't argue at the table, et cetera]

Grabs are ended by effects that prevent the grabber from taking actions, which certainly includes dazed. That is not a consequence of the grabber not being able to sustain the grab, it is an immediate end (This is all also supported by the published paperback Compendium, so it can be assumed to be current). A standard grab performed by a monster technically should require a minor action to sustain, I believe, but in the interest of simplicity that minor action can usually just be assumed. The Kraken (MM3) specifically mentions the sustain minor, most likely because it includes extra damage, not because other monsters are better at sustaining grabs than a Kraken is.

I wonder is the DM has been describing the Ghoul's ability to Immobilize as if it were a grab, though. That ability is actually a kind of paralysis (even though it lacks poison or charm as a keyword) and does not follow the grab rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Me again, trying to GRAB your attention
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:41 pm
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Yeah, with immobilize you're not being physically held, per se. A ghoul just touches you and turns you stiff for a while. Our DM even let my minotaur pick up an immobilized character and use him as a meat shield to protect myself against the ghoul's touch. That character couldn't resist me, or even move at all. It was almost like I was holding a taxidermy subject. It helped me turn the tide of the battle!

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 Post subject: Re: Me again, trying to GRAB your attention
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:39 am
Posts: 5
The other rule is pertaining to sustaining a grab, which is not being questioned.


Last edited by Khime on Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Removing spam


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