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 Post subject: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:40 pm 
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Hello,

Now i've got an overview of the essentials product line, is my question, does it all end now? No new products? Is the upcoming shadowbook completely classic again? So the essentials is 'finished' now?

I don't really seem to understand WotC's intentions...Can someone clear this up a little?

Greetings! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:09 pm 
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It would certainly make sense for it to end, from a development point of view.

I remember the old D&D basic sets, only documented up to a certain level an really just left any new rules for the main line. Coming from the school of "give me the core rules and I can DM my players for years", I think this is quite an acceptable approach.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:41 pm 
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Ok ill do my best to sum up.

Yes, essentials line of products is done "for the time being" there where originally intended to be 10 products to make easy for new players to buy "sets" including most of what they needed to play 4th edition. Once you now your way around 4th D&D you can continue with non-essential products.

The intention of WoTC is to attract new players with simpler products easier to understand for someone that has never played before (if they had accomplished that its a completely different issue)

As i said before, it seems interesting to me how they say the Essential lines is done for the time being, logically i understand that if the sales support it they would probably launch more products in this categories, nevertheless, the original line is done.

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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Be still my beating heart! I was worried that the Heroes of Shadow sourcebook was going to be all 'essentialed' up. Hearing that it shouldn't be is music to my ears.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:30 am 
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I expect elements of the Essentials line to be carried forward in the future, not the least of these could be alternate secondary stats which we saw initially with Doppleganger/changeling, then carried into PHB3.

An increase in 'tier-less' feats, as shown in HotF* books.

'Refined' (in quotes as some find it backward, but refining can undo as well as purify) monster designs.


so, will we see classes with a fairly static railroad path compared to other existing classes in 4e? Maybe. Will we see it for everything? I doubt it.

Dark sun, Gamma World and Essentials all came out around the same time, all use the 4e game system for the most part, and modify portions of it. Just as Forgotten Realms added Spellscarred, Eberron the Dragonmarks/shards, Dark Sun added it's own component to the mix. I have no idea what to expect from heroes of shadow when it comes to assassin (promised to never be published), other than I'm pretty sure the original builds won't be republished and executioner will be.

So, is it Dead and buried? Nope.
Will we succeed in a raise dead? Maybe
Will it be an undead monstrosity attacking our villages and impregnating our pumpkins? Quite Possibly.

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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Botanicus wrote:
Will it be an undead monstrosity attacking our villages and impregnating our pumpkins? Quite Possibly.



This would seem to be the case, as HoS seems to be more in the Essentials style than the "Original" 4E style. For instance - no multi-class feats, references to HotFL/HotFK/RC, no rituals, etc.


I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:29 pm 
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LordPasty wrote:
Botanicus wrote:
Will it be an undead monstrosity attacking our villages and impregnating our pumpkins? Quite Possibly.



This would seem to be the case, as HoS seems to be more in the Essentials style than the "Original" 4E style. For instance - no multi-class feats, references to HotFL/HotFK/RC, no rituals, etc.


I'm not sure how I feel about the whole thing.

I think that's the main issue many players/dms are having and that is what's going on? Not sure if WotC even knows. I know there are concerns about the retconning the core classes into their essentials format but after the backlash against the cleric changes, I'm not so sure what WotC's next move will be.

I have enjoyed 4e for the most part and the things I miss from previous editions I'm ok with the fact that they're gone. I've not been a fan of the move to essentials as it struck me as a bad business decision to muddy the waters for your prospective consumer.

I have found the renaming of certain classes (e.g., cleric/templar, fighter/weaponmaster, & warlord/marshal) to be nothing move than retconning for its own sake; rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic if you will - not that WotC is the Titanic in my mind, just that it seemed just as pointless). :roll:

I do hope WotC can regain its focus and soon for if this perceived lack of direction continues it could be potentially truly damaging to the company & the D&D brand.

PR

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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:47 pm 
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To be fair, the renaming of PH1/DP Clerics to Templars serves an functional purposes, since all "Templars" have a large number of things in common with each other but not with "Warpriests", and giving both subsets a unique name is helpful for that reason. I agree that the reason for the renaming (like almost everything else about Essentials) has been mishandled, but the underlying logic is sound.

The playtesting of the Warlock errata seems a very hopeful sign to me that the Cleric errata fiasco has been instructive. I think the main challenge for 4e at this point (as it has been since well before Essentials) is that selling new material is always more difficult once enough material for a very full campaign has already been released. No matter what happens with the game, I think they will have to look at other parts of the brand besides the RPG for their profits in 2011 and 2012. I don't hope for much beyond Heroes of Shadow sized supplements increasingly few and far between.

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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:51 pm 
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Yeah. HoS coming out in a largely E4E format killed any hope of my picking it up, regardless of any C4E useable content. I'm at a point in my frustration with WotC/Hasbro that I'd actually like to see D&D die entirely under their command and the brand be sold to a real RPG company.


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 Post subject: Re: Essentials product line finished?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:54 am 
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profligate wrote:
Yeah. HoS coming out in a largely E4E format killed any hope of my picking it up, regardless of any C4E useable content. I'm at a point in my frustration with WotC/Hasbro that I'd actually like to see D&D die entirely under their command and the brand be sold to a real RPG company.

That sounds good to me but I have heard that Hasbro has a habit of a scorched earth policy regarding the products they own & don't want anymore. So that could be bad for D&D long term. However, as I cannot substantiate said claim I don't put too much stock into it; especially as from a business POV destroying a product you want to sell off to a third party doesn't make much business sense as it would greatly reduce the sales value.

Emily, good point. I guess the changing of class names, especially ones like the fighter & cleric that have been with D&D from its inception, irked me somehow. I might be just an old grognard bastage at heart. ;)

PR

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